Huge immigration protests all over the country

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Captain Howdy
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2006/03/26 22:54:22 (permalink)

Huge immigration protests all over the country

I hear they had 50,000 in Denver. I love how authorities are shocked over the size of the protests.  "Activism is still alive?"

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    David Seabrook
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/26 23:23:48 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Captain Howdy

    I hear they had 50,000 in Denver. I love how authorities are shocked over the size of the protests.  "Activism is still alive?"

    After the likes of Focus on the Family and Ward Churchill/Jay Bennish, there should be no question that activism is still alive and well in Colorado!
     
    Denver was actually one of the main gathering places for Latinos during their civil rights movement in the 1960's and 1970's, including the famous declaration of reforming Aztlan. 
     
    More than 33% of Denver's population is Hispanic, and the state as a whole has a large Hispanic population.  When you couple that with the fact that the leading immigration reform Congressman, Republican Tom Tancredo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Tancredo#Immigration_issues) is also from Colorado, it makes my state won of the key battlegrounds in the war over illegal immigration.  This topic is consistently in the newspapers here, so it's surprising to me that it took such large protests to alert the rest of the country to this divisive issue.
     
    What are your thoughts on the immigration issue, Howdy?
     
    (Just to add a little positive spin to my home state, Denver also has one of the largest Race For The Cure and Martin Luther King Day parade turnouts of anywhere in the country.  People here like to keep themselves busy, I guess.)
     
     
     
     

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    DHirschp
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 00:45:53 (permalink)
    My Aunt and Uncle went to a rally in Chicago it was huge

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    Blossman
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 01:04:37 (permalink)
    See, this is the kind of thing that blows my mind. People are actually holding rallies supporting criminals! If you are in this country illegally, I say get your ass back to whatever country you snuck here from. If you want to come here, do it the legal way. Come here, get citizenship, pay your taxes, learn English. My ancestors did it. You can do it.
     
    I see no problem in building a 50 foot tall, 10 foot thick wall all along the US-Mexico border and another one along the US-Canada border, with razor wire and guard towers.
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    David Seabrook
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 01:11:41 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Blossman

    See, this is the kind of thing that blows my mind. People are actually holding rallies supporting criminals! If you are in this country illegally, I say get your ass back to whatever country you snuck here from. If you want to come here, do it the legal way. Come here, get citizenship, pay your taxes, learn English. My ancestors did it. You can do it.

    Catholics hold rallies supporting criminals all the time....they're called anti-death penalty protests!
     
    Seriously, though, I think it's important not to underestimate the value illegal immigrants have to our economy.  The "they come over here and take our jobs" argument is one that will never resonate with me because that is not what I have seen with my own eyes.  The jobs that illegal immigrants take are jobs that people here don't care to have, whether it's working construction, gardening or cleaning toilets.  Face it, businesses prosper because they can keep their costs down by staffing illegal immigrants, and prosperous businesses are good for the economy.
     
    Where do you think the economy would be right now if we didn't have illegal immigrants building all of the new structures which are helping modernize major cities?
     
    Not only that, but people who come here illegally are not likely to commit "other" crimes--in fact, they're more likely to be victims of crime because they can't go running to the authorities for help.
     

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    Blossman
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 01:27:31 (permalink)

    Catholics hold rallies supporting criminals all the time....they're called anti-death penalty protests!

     
    I ain't one of them. Care to see my "Fry Tookie" poster?
     
    Illegal immigrants have no value to society at all. They never give you what you order at McDonald's, they don't speak the native tongue of the country they're illegally in. They steal jobs from hardworking honest Americans like you and me (construction and gardening are actually regularly sought jobs by citizens...now cleaning toilets, I'm not so sure I'd want them cleaning my toilets with the way they smell). Then, they have the gall to steal from my tax dollars via receiving food stamps and sending their kids to public schools.
     
    If they want to come here, they can come legally. But if they're here illegally, they'd better get out.
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    ratman
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 01:34:01 (permalink)
    Illegal immigrants have no value to society at all. They never give you what you order at McDonald's, they don't speak the native tongue of the country they're illegally in. They steal jobs from hardworking honest Americans like you and me (construction and gardening are actually regularly sought jobs by citizens...now cleaning toilets, I'm not so sure I'd want them cleaning my toilets with the way they smell). Then, they have the gall to steal from my tax dollars via receiving food stamps and sending their kids to public schools.

     
    Putting money over humanity - some Catholic you are!
    post edited by ratman - 2006/03/27 01:35:05

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    Blossman
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 01:37:44 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: ratman

    Illegal immigrants have no value to society at all. They never give you what you order at McDonald's, they don't speak the native tongue of the country they're illegally in. They steal jobs from hardworking honest Americans like you and me (construction and gardening are actually regularly sought jobs by citizens...now cleaning toilets, I'm not so sure I'd want them cleaning my toilets with the way they smell). Then, they have the gall to steal from my tax dollars via receiving food stamps and sending their kids to public schools.


    Putting money over humanity - some Catholic you are!

     
    I have no problem if they want to come here. But, come legally. My ancestors did it. They can do it too.
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    David Seabrook
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 01:43:03 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Blossman

    I ain't one of them. Care to see my "Fry Tookie" poster?

    Sister Peter Marie would be absolutley livid about this...livid.  On "Oz," it was crystal clear that she opposed the death penalty, with her participating in more than one protest to that effect.  Nuns don't like the death penalty, so why should you?

    Illegal immigrants have no value to society at all.

    For one, they have a significant value, which any fiscally conservative economist could provide you a detailed explanation for.  Secondly, who can say that an entire group of people has no value to a society?  I'm surprised you have such a staunch position on this issue with such matter of fact, black and white opinions.
     
    They steal jobs from hardworking honest Americans like you and me (construction and gardening are actually regularly sought jobs by citizens...

    Uh huh, right.  And if so many "white, middle class" guys like you and I were so anxious to work construction, then why do owners of private construction companies have to drive downtown to pick up day laborers?  Could it be because....hmmm....they don't have anybody to work for them?  The jobs are there for American citizens to have, and they're not taking them.  The work still needs to be done, doesn't it?
     
    If you're refering to all of the illegal immigrants who have taken the jobs as CEO's, lawyers, investors, actors, musicians, doctors, judges, dentists, etc......then I could see your point.
     
    now cleaning toilets, I'm not so sure I'd want them cleaning my toilets with the way they smell

    There's your value right there.
     
    Then, they have the gall to steal from my tax dollars via receiving food stamps and sending their kids to public schools.

    How do they steal your tax dollars?  Any tax money that goes to a public school benefits all of the kids at the school no matter who their parents are.  Are you saying that you'd rather see public schools have less funding?  
     
    Why don't the people who make this argument hold the President and the current United States House of Representatives and Senate to this same standard?

    If they want to come here, they can come legally. But if they're here illegally, they'd better get out.

    Or what.......???????

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    Blossman
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 01:50:38 (permalink)
    your value right there. 

    I was using some crude un-PC humor...sorry...I know there are many great people out there of Mexican descent.
     
    For one, they have a significant value, which any fiscally conservative economist could provide you a detailed explanation for.  Secondly, who can say that an entire group of people has no value to a society?  I'm surprised you have such a staunch position on this issue with such matter of fact, black and white opinions.  

     
    It's not so much a demographic as it's a societal oriented view. If you reward them for coming in illegally, what does that tell us? That rules are for suckers?
     
    Uh huh, right.  And if so many "white, middle class" guys like you and I were so anxious to work construction, then why do owners of private construction companies have to drive downtown to pick up day laborers?  Could it be because....hmmm....they don't have anybody to work for them?  The jobs are there for American citizens to have, and they're not taking them.  The work still needs to be done, doesn't it?  

     
    Actually that's b/c private construction owners won't hire union workers. They'd rather pay less and get crappier workmanship.
     
    How do they steal your tax dollars?  Any tax money that goes to a public school benefits all of the kids at the school no matter who their parents are.  Are you saying that you'd rather see public schools have less funding?   

     
    That's easy. It's because the kids should not be attending that school in the first place. Their parents should not be here. If they want to come here, come legally.
     
    Or what.......???????  

     
    I support a 90 day window. They have 90 days to get their affairs tied up before a massive sweep of illegal immigrants. If you're illegal, you will be deported back to your home country. No ifs ands or buts. If you want to come back, you gotta do it the right way.
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    David Seabrook
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 02:06:53 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Blossman

    It's not so much a demographic as it's a societal oriented view. If you reward them for coming in illegally, what does that tell us? That rules are for suckers?

    Anybody with a driver's license has probably gone well above the speed limit at least one time in their life, haven't they?  Isn't that bending a rule, and showing that rules are for suckers since so many people ignore speed limits anyway?

    I know that's on a much smaller and less significant scale, but the principle is still the same.

    The laws could be changed to allow for more work visas, couldn't they?  Maybe if a national registry was established, these laborers could be allowed to continue the hard work they have been doing, and the United States wouldn't have to alter it's immigration quotas.

    Actually that's b/c private construction owners won't hire union workers. They'd rather pay less and get crappier workmanship.

    You have a lot of hostility.  I mean, a lot.  I haven't seen you throw around this many insults and cheap shots since I've been here, and it's very unflattering.  Very!

    That's easy. It's because the kids should not be attending that school in the first place. Their parents should not be here. If they want to come here, come legally.

    From what I've read in the past, most of the people who come here illegally to work are men, and they leave their wives and children at home.  They work here and spend some of their money here (which benefits our economy), then, they send the rest home because they don't have any jobs where they live.

    If you want to solve the problem of immigration, kicking all of the "illegals" out of the US isn't going to do anything.  Why?  Because as long as the economy and work opportunites in the United States are far superior to those of the countries these workers come from, they are going to keep coming here.  Politicians are trying to fix the problem in the United States, but that's not where the problem is.  The problem is in all of the poor countries where these people have little opportunity to make enough money to support their families.  When the economies are better in these countries, illegal immigration to the United States drops.  Fancy that.  Don't believe me...again, consult your fiscally conservative economist!

    If you're illegal, you will be deported back to your home country. No ifs ands or buts. If you want to come back, you gotta do it the right way.

    Yeah, and maybe the US government could transfer some of those immigration slots they hold open Swedes, Brits, Germans, etc. over to Central and South American countries so that more people who actually want to live here can.  Oh, wait.  That would mean more non-white skinned people who have a hard time understanding the English language.  We certainly wouldn't want that.
     
     
    post edited by David Seabrook - 2006/03/27 02:09:02

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    Blossman
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 02:15:16 (permalink)
    The laws could be changed to allow for more work visas, couldn't they? Maybe if a national registry was established, these laborers could be allowed to continue the hard work they have been doing, and the United States wouldn't have to alter it's immigration quotas.

     
    Work visas, fine. But they must pay taxes just like you and me, and be paid a liveable wage.
     
      Yeah, and maybe the US government could transfer some of those immigration slots they hold open Swedes, Brits, Germans, etc. over to Central and South American countries so that more people who actually want to live here can.  Oh, wait.  That would mean more non-white skinned people who have a hard time understanding the English language.  We certainly wouldn't want that.

     
    I thought immigration quotas and slots were shot down by the Supreme Court in the 1970s? If I'm wrong, correct me.
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    Tina
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 05:55:57 (permalink)
    I see no problem in building a 50 foot tall, 10 foot thick wall all along the US-Mexico border and another one along the US-Canada border, with razor wire and guard towers.

    WTF?
    I hope that wasn't serious.  Are you talking about attempting to keep out all of those pesky Canadians who are trying to get into your country?  Or are you talking about people from other countries landing in Canada and going across the border to get into the US? 
    This has been a very interesting read. 
    How about instead of a huge immigration sweep that sends back illegals, there is a huge immigration sweep where an amnesty is declared and people are assisted in becoming legal. 
     

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    campwankyourself
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 06:10:40 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Blossman

    I see no problem in building a 50 foot tall, 10 foot thick wall all along the US-Mexico border and another one along the US-Canada border, with razor wire and guard towers.

     
    I think it would be easier/cheaper to line the borders with land mines, probably more effective as well

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    Captain Howdy
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 12:44:28 (permalink)
    What are your thoughts on the immigration issue, Howdy?


    We don't need a fence. We don't need a larger border police force. What we need to do is crack down on the companies that employ them illegally. Wal-Mart has an organized effort deep in the top echelons of the company to hire illegal immigrants to cut down on costs.

    300 janitors were caught and sent back to Mexico after Operation Rollback, and Wal-Mart had to pay a measley $11 million fine (none of this was paid to the janitors who worked there below the legal wages afforded a citizen, though). It is no accident if you have that many janitors working illegally. There was a concerted, tacit effort to employ illegal immigrants.

    If you forced companies like Wal-Mart to pay the illegal immigrants legal wages, and you fined them greater fees for attempting to undermine the law of the United States government, there would be no reason why Wal-Mart or any other company would want to hire them.

    What the rich in this country do to prevent that is inflame the existing racist sentiment in their base lower-middle class (see Blossman's statement). They propose fences and other ridiculous shit. That is not going to prevent them from coming over if there are jobs to be had due to their cheap cost-cutting policies.
    post edited by Captain Howdy - 2006/03/27 12:59:23

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    Captain Howdy
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 12:57:48 (permalink)
    Here is what I propose we do. We pass a law that first says you have to employ illegal immigrants according to the laws of this country. That means paying them at least a minimum wage salary. If they sue, that means they have to be reimbursed the full wage plus damages.

    Then up the fines for catching companies engaging in illegal employing practices. I don't understand how they can up the fees for a guy saying vagina on the airwaves, but not up the fees for some cheap asshole in a board room.

    Then, if the illegal immigrant is caught working at any establishment, the company has to pay the fee for sending the immigrant back to their home country, rather than having the government do it.

    This way is fool-proof, I think. It doesn't rely on a retarded fence that would cost billions and billions of dollars. Did the great wall of China prevent the Mongols from sacking the country? Walls are bullshit, they don't work. That is a narrow-minded, costly solution.

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    campwankyourself
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 13:09:57 (permalink)
    Why are we paying so much respect to Mexico?  Seriously when was the last time they did anything for us?  Put a bunch of land mines at the borders and when Pablo tries hopping the fence him and his mariachi band get blown to heaven itself.  This isn't brain science, if they see someone getting blown up they're going to stop hopping the fence. What's Mexico going to do to us for blowing up their fence hoppers?  Stop giving us Tequila?  Who cares? My plan is perfect as usual

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    Captain Howdy
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 13:17:17 (permalink)
    Why are we paying so much respect to Mexico?  Seriously when was the last time they did anything for us?


    Uh, they gave us California and Texas, among other things. They had to put up with our bullshit Manifest Destiny promise to ourselves. And why should we ask for tribute from other countries? That's fairly arrogant, particularily when we really don't have an army to use on anyone anymore.

    Put a bunch of land mines at the borders and when Pablo tries hopping the fence him and his mariachi band get blown to heaven itself. his isn't brain science, if they see someone getting blown up they're going to stop hopping the fence. What's Mexico going to do to us for blowing up their fence hoppers?  Stop giving us Tequila?  Who cares? My plan is perfect as usual


    That will not stop illegal immigration. You fail to see that the direct cause of the illegal immigration is not immigrants themselves, but the companies that give them jobs beyond the protection of the law. It is also fairly racist to assume the only illegal immigrants are Mexican. There is a HUGE influx of illegal immigration from eastern Europe as well. So now we're going to build a wall and landmines around Romania?



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    Blossman
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 13:28:35 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Tina

    I see no problem in building a 50 foot tall, 10 foot thick wall all along the US-Mexico border and another one along the US-Canada border, with razor wire and guard towers.

    WTF?
    I hope that wasn't serious.  Are you talking about attempting to keep out all of those pesky Canadians who are trying to get into your country?  Or are you talking about people from other countries landing in Canada and going across the border to get into the US? 
    This has been a very interesting read. 
    How about instead of a huge immigration sweep that sends back illegals, there is a huge immigration sweep where an amnesty is declared and people are assisted in becoming legal. 


     
    It wouldn't be meant to keep people out per se. It would be meant to insure those who do come in do so according to the rules we have set up. Remember, some of the 9/11 hijackers came to the US via Canada.
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    Captain Howdy
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    RE: Huge immigration protests all over the country 2006/03/27 13:31:14 (permalink)

    It wouldn't be meant to keep people out per se. It would be meant to insure those who do come in do so according to the rules we have set up. Remember, some of the 9/11 hijackers came to the US via Canada.


    And a giant fence is going to stop that?

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